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Satsang with Satyananda
Satyananda graced us with his presence and gave satsang at the Temple of all Faiths in Reading in March this year. The following article is an extract from that inspiring morning’s satsang.SATSANG WITH SATYANANDA IN READING
Introduction Alan Jacobs: It’s a time of great joy to be in this sacred place – with Maria, Swami Shivarupananda and Sathyananda and other friends. As Maria said, the meeting takes place under the aegis of the Ramana Foundation. This is a number of people – over 260 now – who subscribe to our magazine and newsletter throughout the United Kingdom, who are interested in one of the greatest sages of the 20th Century – Bhagavan Sri Ramana Maharshi.
His teaching can be stated very simply. There are two wings– self-enquiry, when we enquire within and look to see the source from which our mind and body and thoughts and what we call “I” emerge, and self-surrender,which is in effect, the total renunciation to the Divine Will and giving up the pettiness of the ego.
That’s the framework. Now, the main thrust of Ramana Maharshi’s teaching was to lead his devotees to self-realisation. Although many people get a great deal of comfort from his teaching, it wasn’t to stop there; it was to bring people to self-realisation. The Foundation recognised that in the world at present there are fortunately, through Grace, a few gifted men and women, who have the ability to impart the understanding of this teaching in a very authentic way. One doesn’t want to use large adjectival terms. And the foundation realised that by inviting these teachers to give ‘Satsang’ to members, a tremendous service was being given – that the understanding of this teaching could develop by question and answer.
Our Uruguayan friend Satyananda, is one of those – a very gifted person. He is very popular in the United Kingdom and gets some large audiences at his meetings, which have been going on over a number of years. He has also been to India, the United States and Holland and I think in your magazine, you are shortly going to have an article. He is always very happy to assist the Foundation whenever asked. And so when Maria said: “ Well we want a living teacher” I rang up Satyananda and with great grace he was happy to come along to this meeting.
I think I would just like to say how very happy I am to see Swami Shivarupananda here, because along with Ramana Maharshi – the other greatest figure of the 20th Century –was Ramakrishna, who combined perhaps above all else, all the virtues of the ‘bhakti’ devotion and the ‘ jnana’ of Advaita. There was a cordial relationship between the two teachings,because, whenever somebody insisted they take sanyas to Ramana Maharshi, he would send them to the Ramakrishna order, which he regarded as the aristocracy of Indian spirituality. And although Ramakrishna’s order is monastic, the teachings have so much in common. The only difference is that Ramana Maharshi’s teachings are designed for the householder and he doesn’t insist on the monastic life. So, it’s a great joy to see you here with this meeting – a little link between Ramana Maharshi and Ramakrishna. I don’t want to take much more of his valuable time and I’ll now pass you over to Satyananda to conduct this own satsang in the manner in which he conducts it in other places.
Satyananda: I’m very happy to be with you today. Thank you for the invitation. I am happy that you are seriously in the quest for Truth. Feel free to ask any questions.
Question: Can you explain, perhaps, your perspective of the teachings of non-dualism?
S: No! Perspectives are always perspectives. Always! And a solution to your problem cannot be a perspective. Must be solid! Permanent!
Q. I’ve been struggling with the concept of ‘God is Love and Love is God’ are they reciprocal statements both valid. And I can’t decide whether, if Love is an attribute of God, whether it is legitimate to say ‘Love is God as God is Love’, having come through a Christian tradition, where they are very much into ‘God is Love’ but I believe in Christianity it is not a reciprocal statement of ‘Love is God’. And I am struggling with this, because I know many New Age people who can see no difference between ‘God is Love and Love is God’. Would you differentiate or would you say they are a reciprocal statement? S: So how do you experience it?
Q: Through Relationship.
S: No I mean how is it for you? For that you need to search to see God – not to talk about Him, but to directly talk of the here and now. Do you understand? This very moment – now! You need to come with all your attention to the now, in which everything disappears. And then from here, you see, natural –God is Love, where are they? What is the difference? What can you say about it?
Q: Not a lot!
S: No difference! When you look at it from another state of mind, it opens relationship. Now, no limitations – no separation here! This is your own self –you must get used to it until it removes any ideas of it, not only the bad ones, also the good ones. Yes!
Q: Thanks for that.
S: Straightforward,direct to the heart! It cuts through everything, you see – every sort of speculation! ‘ It is reduced to ashes in the presence of the heart. Q: I’ve got a question. I’m not sure where I am going with it. It’s on dualism. It’s in the here and the now. Not the past or the future, it’s what’s going on right now. For me, I have a problem – it’s the idea of karma. Karma, even in studies of non-dualism, it relies on cause and effect, the past and the future. I’m a bit confused. How does the idea of karma fit into non-dualism?
S:Karma belongs only to the individual. So long as there is no individuality there is no karma. Every time there is a thought in your mind “I am doing this” –every time your body’s acting in action, in duty, and there is the sentence in your mind “I am doing it” then the mind is functioning through contraction that will produce more contraction in the same form – no matter what it is achieving or getting rid of. So this is what is the law of karma – like a muscle that is suddenly contracting.
That is also the functioning of the mind through the sense of ‘I’ only, at the centre. This is the very deepest aspect in your mind. And it’s not the only one that can think. Every time there is the thought of ‘I’ you reinforce the form of ‘I’. So you believe strongly who you think you are through the action or through the thought, whatever it is. So that strength that you give to the ‘I’ it helps it to subsist. You understand? That is karma.
Q: Oh yes I understand.
Q: How do we as English people, brought up in a certain way and associating everything with ‘I’ – I am that person – being very restricted, how do we practically let it go?
S: No matter if you’re English! It happens in India too. Through realisation, this idea is removed, only through realisation.
Q: And how do we put that into practice?
S: We can do it right now if you want. But it takes only total determination, because it will take everything. You understand? What happens in self-realisation is something that is not convenient for the mind. The mind will always find reasons why not to attain it. It’s not convenient. It’s not practical. It is selfish. So you have to be willing now to be selfish and unpractical. And, maybe for the rest of your life! Is that in you?
Q: I don’t know how I would be if I was like that.
S: You are like that already.
Q: I know I am.
S: Do you really know?
Q: I have an idea
S: Now that is not 'knowing’.
Q: I know it isn’t.
S: Excellent! This is an idea and it helps but it is not ‘knowing’. Real knowing is being, you see. It is not now and later, it’s present all the time. Real knowing – the present is stronger. The permanent is stronger than the impermanent. It overtakes it. It swallows it. So for the practical side you must focus on what is permanent. Not out of you – in you. You must look into yourself before being someone, you see. Here and now, not in time, you understand, but in the now, in the here and now.
Q: I do understand that side of me.
S: Excellent! So do it.
Q: Do it. But it’s living my life like that, I find-
S: That we’ll work out later. That is future.
Q: I don’t know whether other people feel the same,but that how I find it – difficult.
S: Yes, of course. That’s why “I” find it difficult. That’s very good. “I” finds it difficult. Difficult for “I” because it means it’s all disappearing, so it’s difficult. It’s difficult but not impossible. What I am saying to you is not to make the “I” disappear or to do a great job. I’m just saying stop everything and see what remains. Don’t ever believe about yourself what you know. For a moment drop it and see what you can’t drop. What is it that you can’t drop? Immediately, you understand, it is here. It is immediate. Now compare this ‘what you are’ with ‘what you think you are’,with what you project. There is a big difference. What you project you are, is in the past – a collection of memories. Stay with this permanent present. The thoughts, they come to seduce your attention. Don’t give them the now. So this is the practical side you are asking for. Dropping down everything. It works by itself, the presence of Self. It doesn’t need you to do the job it’s already here. Confront the impermanent with the permanent. That’s the burning! That’s the fire! The impermanent as the log; the permanent is the fire. Yes!
Q: It’s easy to understand when we’re sitting here in this sort of atmosphere and in this sacred place and with everybody like-minded, but in the day-to-day activities; with running a business and the family how does one reconcile it? One can bring one’s self into the present moment when things start getting too hectic, but can you actually live in it the whole time and still be part of you know, being a mother, and a wife and a business woman etc. Can you still do that?
S: Absolutely! What I’m speaking of is something that you can practise with nobody noticing. You can check now, while you speak you can be aware of Self. This is something that cannot be explained. It’s just that you give a bit of attention to Reality. Once this awareness – once this ‘reality’ of ‘you’ is understood in every level as your nature, then no idea can grow. You understand? So, first know your Self then check if ‘You’ stop being sometime. Whenever you remember, check if you’re still here. This is an immediate out-of-time process. It’s available because you take your Self everywhere you go. It’s permanent. Children or work, whatever you’re doing, it’s possible you see, closer than your nose! But you must want this more than anything, you understand. This presence will remove the concept. Eventually in a moment beyond time the concept won’t come back. You don’t even know when it happens. Yes? This is actually the practice of self-enquiry as the Master taught us.
Q: If you’re trying to help people and make a difference and do something – I mean I hope I’m trying to think that I’m doing it. I’m the hand, the tool, whatever. But in order to achieve anything on a practical level; you have to plan;you have to look into the future. You have to help other people to help themselves. There are a whole lot of practical things that I feel can be done, I know it’s not an indulgence, it’s almost as if it is an indulgence to think that I can be worrying about my own realisation. There are so many practical things to be done to help and need to be done.
S: The realisation is not personal. The only way to help these people is in your mind. Without peace, no matter how many things you do, in these terms you are part of the problem, or you’re part of the solution. There is no middle term. So, if you don’t have peace in your mind, no matter how good you are in what you’re doing, the real help comes from peace, from detachment. This comes out of self-knowledge. And no matter what beautiful excuses your mind will give you to not realise yourself, because it’s urgent to help others it is just an illusion. Q: On that basis everything is an illusion.
S: On the basis I’m speaking is in the healing process. Is that what your talking about? Helping other people with your hands?
Q: I’m not a hands-on healer. I’m just being practical.
S: So if you’re not then don’t worry. That which is taking care, it will take care of the future and the planning. If you’re not doing it, why are you worrying about how to do it?
Q: Yes. Thank you. I’m not worrying that much. I mean I still feel you have things to plan.
S: Yes of course. No problem with planning.
Q: Again you have to be in the future or look to the future.
S: That’s an idea – to be in the future. And it’s also an idea that it’s bad for you to think in the future. It takes self-realisation for you to understand that there is nothing wrong in thinking about the future. That is called Freedom. It’s not that you have to remove the habits of thinking about the future or the past. This is a torture.Thoughts are our future and past. You have to realise what is beyond your thoughts. And it’s permanent. Stop worrying about if there are thoughts or not, because the thoughts are not permanent. Now you are embracing the permanent. So what is the difference if there are thoughts in your mind or not? You found the beloved within. You understand? Once you dedicate your absolute total concentration into the reality of ‘You’ it’s enough, to remove the rest. It produces an explosion in which every piece falls in the right place. You understand? A huge explosion and every piece will fall in the right place – not a millimetre wrong.
Q: But sometimes you have a feeling that you’re doing the right thing and everything is falling in the right place and you have this wonderful feeling that everything is just right and you are following and doing what you’re meant to be doing – and then you lose it!
S: Yes. But have you noticed that when you have this feeling, somewhere you don’t believe totally that you’re doing it?
Q: Yes. S: Have you noticed that? This is common to all of us. Somewhere when things are going well; somewhere we feel like “I don’t know how it happened” Even in the office or whatever you’re doing, you feel seven hours went away in no time. “Have I been efficient?” There was an absence of ‘I’ doing it. There was absence of mental activity. So know that efficiency will come when ‘you’ and ‘I’ get out of the way. You understand? Just realise yourself and stop being whosoever you think you are. The thought of ‘you’ and ‘I’ is useful for you to interchange relations with others, but you don’t need to believe it. You don’t need to follow it. You don’t need to drag yourself under the ups and downs. You understand? Excellent! Isn’t it beautiful, because it plays from where you understand, it’s already here. It’s nothing you learnt. This is called recognition. Understanding is a process through the mind, which takes time and thought. Recognition is a light that goes directly within you and somewhere in your heart you know it’s true. Yes? Be quiet – it happens by itself. Just be quiet. Being quiet means to not make any effort.Not to shut your mouth. Don’t make any effort to renounce. This! If you taste it once, it’s impossible to not become in love. And it is seen expressing itself everywhere you are and in everything you do. Then it’s even worse because your love, it becomes possessive. And then you want to check it in your office; you check it in situations– in the loo, you check it. You see? You check it in your office; you check it in the middle of expression with your partner. And it’s always there safe, open, empty. And the more you see it ever-present, the more in love you feel in your heart, because you are out and it’s been in. You thought you had to give up things for this to ‘be’ and now you see you don’t have to give up anything. And this is realisation; this is what you need to look for.
Q: And we’re here to find that true devotion, are we?
S: It may be because what happens is that devotion– the real nature of devotion – comes through this. The real devotion comes out of gratitude, not out of investment.You understand? The real devotion is when you are already free and you are absolutely devoted to the truth that is permanent and to the immensity of the mystery, which you will never understand that is here. This devotion is nothing that people even notice. Don’t believe the devotion that only goes through the rituals. They may help to concentrate the mind but there is someone doing that and that someone is safe while he’s doing it. And that someone is the obstacle. You understand? So devotion – let devotion come out of gratitude.
Q: Didn’t someone say “ It’s easier to taste the honey than be the honey” It just seems like it’s so much easier to have somebody you can – I mean Sai Baba is my- it’s easier through Him.
S: Absolutely! So, if it does for you. Do it! But do it totally.
Q: But I can’t do it totally. That is the problem.
S: OK. Then it is not for you. You understand. Then it is just a joke. Then you’re not using his majesty, image, you see, for something that is interesting you for who knows what. It’s cool! It’s cool to be devoted. Totally surrender to the Truth that he is absolutely – absolute Truth here in the form of the human body. I can’t! But I like the incense!
Q: No. It is not like that.
S: OK. But I’m just putting these words for you to look. You understand? I’m not judging it. I’m just saying this is the nature of the mind and it is very tricky. You understand? And it’s beautiful to work it out one day. And it doesn’t mean you have to stop devotion. That is what I am saying. Devotion comes out when you are free- when you realise that you are and that you were always free. That’s the true devotion and you are devoted to that truth that is within you. You are devoted to Sai Baba ‘in’ you. That’s devotion, the rest, if you do it before you realise your freedom, then you have to do it totally. Then it’s God,Himself, there. You understand? Absolutely totally, without any – If he wants you to never realise, then you are happy. That is the level of surrendering that you need through devotion. You understand? Because then ‘I’, my intentions, are dropped away, and‘I’ without intentions becomes weak and in that weakness, it disappears. But ‘I’ with intentions, it stays and stays and stays. So, I invite you to look in your heart and find out really how you have been devoted and to what? What does Sai Baba mean for you? Can you see Sai Baba everywhere in everything as the essence of Reality in the here and now? Then, be devoted! If you can see him only in this form, then leave him alone. Leave him alone. You understand? So work him out without your heart as totality. Absolutely, totally from you heart.Whatever is the figure of your devotion, you must be absolutely, totally serious about it. You have to abandon all intentions of your heart. That is not easy for some people, but for some other people it is easy. You have to find out what suits you more.
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